Podcast: The Latest in the Veterinary Shortage Debate

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Welcome to the Veterinary Breakroom! In the breakroom, Alyssa Watson, DVM, Beth Molleson, DVM, and Katie Berlin, DVM, discuss the important, relevant topics affecting veterinarians today. The veterinary shortage has been a topic of great debate in the industry for years. And, recently, the AAVMC withdrew its commissioned report on the supply and demand outlook of veterinarians due to another hot topic—the report’s commentary surrounding women and diversity. Listen in as Drs. Alyssa, Beth, and Katie discuss their reaction to the retraction.


Episode Transcript

This podcast recording represents the opinions of Dr. Watson, Dr. Molleson, and Dr. Berlin. Content, including the transcript, is presented for discussion purposes and should not be taken as medical advice. No guarantee is given regarding the accuracy of any statements or opinions made on the podcast. The transcript—which was prepared with the assistance of artificial intelligence—is provided as a service to our audience.

Dr. Beth [00:00:10] Hi, I'm Dr. Beth Molleson.

Dr. Alyssa [00:00:13] And, I'm Dr. Alyssa Watson.

Dr. Katie [00:00:14] And, I'm Dr. Katie Berlin.

Dr. Beth [00:00:17] Thank you all for joining us in the Veterinary Breakroom. These are short conversations where we chat informally about relevant topics in vet med. And today we are going to be talking about a topic that I'm sure some of you have seen floating around the internet or floating around discussions in your own breakroom. And that is having to do with the AAVMC, so the veterinary medical college organization, who commissioned a workforce report that came out earlier this year. That report wound up getting withdrawn, but we will get into that. So basically, most of us in the veterinary profession know that there has been somewhat of an ongoing debate on the workforce. Are there shortages of veterinarians? Are there surpluses? Are there niche shortages in certain, either geographical markets or certain types of veterinary medicine? And so you multiple organizations have sought to kind of get the answer, quote unquote, and, it is turning out to be very difficult. It's it's a difficult thing to assess. And so the AVMA has worked to assess this. The AAVMC that I just mentioned has worked to assess this. And so, again, bringing us back to the AAVMC released, commissioned and released, a workforce report, I believe it was in March. And so we will kind of dive in to what was in that report. But Katie and Alyssa, have you guys seen this talked about much or heard it floating around in your social circles? This discussion.

Dr. Alyssa [00:01:52] So, I haven't really seen it as much online as I have with I've had we've had some discussions especially with several of the colleagues at Clinician's Brief about it. But I haven't seen this particular one as much online. And I know there was, I think, a VIN article about it recently. I did see that one quickly. But I haven't been on VIN that much recently, I guess. I don't know what about you, Katie?

Dr. Katie [00:02:24] Yeah, I actually was aware of the report only after the Women's Veterinary Leadership Development Initiative, or WVLDI, made a statement like kind of a rebuttal statement. And when I read their statement, then I became aware of the AAVMC's report and and went back and looked. At that point, they'd actually pulled it already. When I heard about it, they'd pulled it from the website. But you can still find it online in PDF form. But that's how I learned about it because I had colleagues who were talking about some things and parts of the report that they took issue with in particular, which we will get to shortly. But of course, you know, that's how we learn about things these days, is when there's controversy about that. So that's when it went on my radar.

Dr. Beth [00:03:13] Isn't that the truth? I really didn't hear about it in March when AAVMC released this report. Like you said, Katie, I only started to hear about it after it was retracted, ironically. And so to get into a little bit of more details about what's being discussed, well, the, the overview is that the AVMA predicts that there's going to be a surplus of, I believe, about 8000 companion animal vets in the year 2030. The AAVMC predicts that there's going to be about 14,000 to 24,000 companion animal vet deficit by 2030. So those are vastly different numbers. However, this discrepancy has nothing to do with why the report was pulled. Like Katie said, WVLDI already, which is the Women Vet Leadership Development Initiative, released a statement, I believe, in April discussing that they felt like, and you guys can chime in here because I know you've taken a little bit of a look at it, but the overall takeaway was discussing that women were not fairly represented in that commissioned report and the overall lack of kind of diversity and inclusion discussion and how that weighs into things. And that, in fact, is what the AAVMC is citing for having withdrawn that. So I kind of wanted to to really hone in on that. Like we said, the workforce issue is so complicated. Like reading about this had me feeling exhausted and overwhelmed and feeling like I have no idea how you, again other people's area of expertise, but it seems very over my head to figure out how you even go about making these assessments. I know one of the AVMA's biggest issues was that they said this report kind of the language that was used made it sound like this data is definitive, which can lead to recommendations for kind of far reaching proposals and very dramatic changes in the industry, such as initiating a mid-level practitioner model of veterinary medicine, or, as we've seen, relaxing some of the VCPR regulations in telehealth. And so that's what they cited as kind of their issue with it, not to mention the number discrepancy. But let's see, Katie, did you I know, I know, you looked a little bit at the report from WVLDI. What was your take away or when you also looked at the AAVMC report, like, was that your first thought? Did you did you kind of understand where they were coming from with the issues that they brought up?

Dr. Katie [00:05:46] Yeah, I mean, definitely admittedly, I have many opinions about these things before, as most of us do, I think, before I ever read WVLDI's statement or went to look at the AAVMC report, or AVMA's rebuttal. I, I, you know, I have a lot of pre-formed opinions. And I would say that this conversation hasn't really changed any of them. But when I first looked at WVLDI's statements and the bits of it that were being sort of shared widely online, it did it struck a couple of notes with me. So, you know, some of the points that they were talking about, specifically where gender is involved, were, you know, sort of the idea that, like, because women make up the majority of the veterinary workforce now, that that could be why we're seeing a shortage because women got into this career basically the, and I'm going to summarize here paraphrase here, basically because the demands of it are not as rigorous as going into human medicine. So you don't do a residency and maybe there's better chance for work-life balance. And I admit that this is something that I have actually said, like earlier in my career, I actually remember hearing this information and absorbing it and being like, oh, well, that makes sense. Like they're more flexible, like part-time options. You know, you spend less time in schools. You can have a family earlier. Being that now I am in my mid 40s and do not have a family and still don't want to work 60 hours a week, and I'm glad that I did not do a residency. I am not sure that that was fair of me. So I definitely agree that, that even if that's a factor, bringing it to the front to the forefront of being like this is why we're short. You know, this is a big reason why we don't have enough vets, whether or not that's true, seemed poorly handled to me. So I definitely that resonated with me, just simply because I know that those things have left my mouth and they don't anymore.

Dr. Beth [00:07:57] Yeah, I think that's a good way to phrase it, Katie, because so, you know, in that AAVMC report, like you said, there was, you know, you're kind of grasping at reasons for why there is or we think maybe a shortage by 2030 of this profound number. And like you said, one of the things they, they pointed to a lot was women. And you know, I, to play I guess maybe a little bit of devil's advocate, I do almost like feel for them because you have to... You know, I think what we hate to see is we hate to see generalities placed on any group of people because we know that just universally, what's true for one person or even the majority of people is not true for everyone. And so, you know, it's almost I could see how it's hard to write this report and make it feel like you're representing the truth for everyone. And so a lot of what is called out in the report is like women work fewer hours. But like you said, it's just like two fewer hours or something throughout the week. But they're using that as a reason why there's a shortage. You know, I think we're really getting into hot water when we start talking about why that why more women want to be vets. You know, is it that lack of residency? And I just think there's so many hot button topics that we're like trying to wade through that I am not like it's I guess what I'm trying to say, it's a little bit hard for me to envision how they would pull the report together without maybe causing a little bit of controversy. That being said, I certainly could point out some places where they could have used more inclusive language or, you know, maybe slap a woman on, I shouldn't say slap a woman, involve a woman heavily involved a woman in putting together this report so that you have that representation there. I think that was one of the things that probably didn't sit very well with people. So this is a report made by men. And yet, you know, where it talks a lot about findings about women, which never I think goes over super well.

Dr. Katie [00:10:02] And I just like to point out to, like you said so, it's the report says that, in two 2017, male veterinarians worked on average 45.01 hours per week, while female veterinarians worked 42.92 hours per week. And last I checked, that was still more than full time. Like 40 hours is a full-time job. Regardless of whether you have family at home, like 40 hours is considered a full-time job. And so I do feel like that that is a bit unfair, not just because male veterinarians were only working a little bit more on average, but also because, you know, that's still a perfectly respectable workweek and in fact would be considered overtime for an hourly employee.

Dr. Beth [00:10:50] Absolutely, you know, obviously with 80 plus percent of the workforce being women, that is talked about a lot throughout the report. Another big thing they evaluated when trying to assess the shortage was generational difference. Of course, we're having baby boomers that are leaving the profession due to age. We're having more Gen Z and millennials come into the profession. And so that was talked about a lot. Alyssa, I want to hear your thoughts on this. We've we've talked about.

Dr. Katie [00:11:23] Alyssa and I are both smiling.

Dr. Beth [00:11:23] Yeah. We've talked about yeah.

Dr. Alyssa [00:11:27] I'm smiling because.

Dr. Beth [00:11:27] You take it, Alyssa.

Dr. Alyssa [00:11:27] I'm smiling because they completely skipped over Gen X again. This is this trend is so funny to me. And so, so there have been multiple times where a report or something will come out and they'll talk about generational differences and they'll pit baby boomers against millennials. And I've even seen, you know, graphics from major news organizations, CNN and Fox News and stuff, that will list out that generations all the way back to like the Silent Generation, and Gen X is just missing. It's like there were no children born between, you know, 1980 and or 1965 and 1980. We, like, our generation wasn't there. And they did the same thing in this in this report.

Dr. Beth [00:12:21] I think, you guys are just like the cooperative middle child. I would take it as a compliment.

Dr. Alyssa [00:12:24] We are.

Dr. Katie [00:12:26] I mean, either that or were like Judd Nelson at detention with our walkman like we just can't be bothered.

Dr. Alyssa [00:12:30] Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

Dr. Katie [00:12:36] Like I don't know, it's either we're cooperative or apathetic I don't know.

Dr. Alyssa [00:12:38] Yeah. Yeah. Apathetic. Yeah. It's that whole, you know, latchkey generation where we just we just kind of did it on our own. We came home, we let ourselves in. We made, you know,

Dr. Katie [00:12:50] Mac and cheese.

Dr. Alyssa [00:12:51] Mac and cheese after school, we got our homework done. Our parents finally got home around, you know, 6-7:00, we put ourselves to bed. That was it.

Dr. Beth [00:13:01] Went to college became a vet and just did your work is what this report makes it sound like. I, I think I said, take it as a compliment.

Dr. Alyssa [00:13:08] Apparently, we're not we're not taking over anything or replacing anybody. We're just kind of we're just a placeholder till those millennials come and take over.

Dr. Beth [00:13:17] You know, It'd be interesting to see, I wonder if it's because you are like that middle child right now. It'd be interesting to see if in 15-20 years it's all talk of Gen X and Gen Z. We'll see.

Dr. Alyssa [00:13:28] Maybe.

Dr. Beth [00:13:30] But you know, in that report, of course, trying to hash out this veterinary shortage, there is a lot of discussion. That's where in my mind too, there's to me reading it, there were a few, like, cringe-worthy moments in reading the report because it's talked about how boomers and, you know, I hope I hopefully I'm paraphrasing adequately, but boomers were more loyal to their workplace, more committed, willing to work more hours. Millennials, you know, who knows what Gen X is doing, like we said, but millennials are you know, maybe...

Dr. Katie [00:14:06] We know what we're doing. No one asked us but we know.

Dr. Beth [00:14:14] Oh, yeah. So so millennials are less loyal, more likely to value that work-life balance. And that's what really got me was thinking about the population vets who are retiring and the baby boomers who are vets. You know we've got majority males. And I'm just thinking about how a male working, let's say their career started in the 1980s-1970s and 1980s. Don't make me do the math somewhere in there. And what percentage of them had a stay-at-home spouse or stay-at-home wife? That really made all the difference. So there were something like offensive to me as a millennial working mother who has no option to work more hours than I'm already working because I don't have someone cooking me dinner. And, you know, just providing this complete outside of the office life for me. So there was something about that wording that got me a little bit too.

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Dr. Katie [00:15:47] Yeah, and the WVLDI did statement did acknowledge that, you know, as part of this the AAVMC's report, they were acknowledging the need for women to still take on a lot more of that household labors, like picking up the kids at daycare and making sure that everybody has food at night and, you know, handling kids like school responsibilities and things. They, they did acknowledge by talking about this that women still carry a greater, amount of that responsibility in most households. And I definitely know some stay at home dads who support their wives wives who are practice owners. And just a note here, because we've talked about this, but haven't said it today, which is when we say women, we're talking about, generally speaking, people who identify as women and carry that more traditional women's role in the household. Because that really is the case. Like, it hasn't changed all that much for all that many people, I think. But and so acknowledging that is good that women still carry a greater than 50% share of those responsibilities. But. Yeah. It just felt a little bit icky.

Dr. Alyssa [00:17:06] Right. Well, you can acknowledge that fact without, this, you know, this under there seemed to be this undertone of like, what women really want is to be, you know, home baking cookies, not at work, you know, and like, that's not, you know, that's that's not exactly how it is. And. Yeah. So that there and, and I, I kind of bringing that back around, back up to the other thing they had talked about, you know, with the, the women go into veterinary medicine as opposed to human medicine because it's just easier, you know, less there's less time commitment. The residency thing that bothered me. That is not my personal experience, you know, and so and and it's not the experience of a lot, of, a lot of the vets. I know a lot of the vets I know wanted to be a vet from the time that they were, you know, tiny kids like, I, I knew I wanted to be a vet from the time I was five years old. I never wanted to be a ballerina. I never wanted to be an astronaut. And I certainly, absolutely, 100% never, ever, ever wanted to be a human doctor ever. We're just we're talking about how people are gross. Like we have coffee mugs that say people are gross.

Dr. Beth [00:18:32] I, and I, I'll have to look closer at the report. But, you know, I wonder if that was at all based because, you know, I think some of this, like I said, to play the devil's advocate a little bit, I do feel like this is a hard report to make without but trying to represent everyone. So I'm curious. I wonder if there are like survey results that just support that that's why women, you know, got into veterinary medicine. Maybe, maybe there is data to back up the reasons why, you know, I don't know. But certainly that's where I think like a women, a woman involved in the production of this report would have gone a long way because I think in a lot of this, it's not necessarily the facts that are wrong. I think it's a little bit the presentation that lacked maybe a little bit more of that inclusive verbiage was kind of my takeaway.

Dr. Alyssa [00:19:30] You're making me feel really guilty, Beth, because sitting in my inbox for the last two weeks has been an invitation for a survey from the AVMA. I know it's like on a snapshot of the profession right now. We want to know, you know, your opinion. And I know it's so important to take the time to do that so we can get the data that you're talking about. But just like everything else, life gets in the way. But I'm going to do that.

Dr. Beth [00:19:56] Right. No, I totally get it.

Dr. Katie [00:20:00] I wanted to bring up there's a passage in the AAVMC report about these millennial archetypes. Since we're talking about millennials, like I'm assuming that some Gen X, like late Gen Xers like us will bleed into that a little bit. But there, there are these three millennial archetypes that they cite, and they're different, as in terms of like, their priorities. These are sort of three different characterizations of people in the millennial generation who you find in the workforce, and one is called social investors who care about the quality of their work, personal development, and social relationships at work. But their first priority priority is their home, family, and work-life balance. Okay. Second archetype chill worker bees. I love these names. Chill worker bees who value job security and physical and emotional safety. They want clear communication and instructions from their superiors so they don't make mistakes. And then the third archetype is called go getters, who prioritize professional development opportunities for growth and regular feedback. And like social investors, go getters place a high priority on the ethics and morality of their work and its impact on society. So those are supposedly the three sort of as cited by this author or these authors in a 2021 report, these three archetypes represent the majority of of types of millennial workers. And I'm I feel like these are all these work, these three archetypes are all people who care really deeply and want to work really hard, whether it be with their family at home or at work. But they all want relationships. They all prioritize feedback. They want opportunities for growth. They want to feel psychologically safe. Like, I feel like these are good things, and I'm not I'm not really sure why millennials are getting such a bad rep for not wanting to work when all along, from the beginning it's been like, actually, we we want to work. We just we need support because we don't want to end up like you. And like I, I. I don't know if that's something that, you know, we're getting to be more willing to accept that, like the millennial psychology is actually really beneficial to society as a whole? Or whether I just feel like maybe it's getting a little bit more accepted because I am an old, you know, essentially an xennial and surrounded by them all the time.

Dr. Beth [00:22:40] I mean, my first thought when I read this descriptions, Katie, is like, what did that you really want to write that they can't like? You know, I feel like there weren't any negative qualities in any of those. And yet when millennials are assessed certainly it's not all roses and sunshine. And I would argue that somewhere underlying those are some maybe more negative qualities that people would assign. But I'm kind of with you that I think I think you kind of hit the nail on the head with your assessment of that overall millennial vibe, so to speak. And to me, it kind of gets back to the idea of women where when we do skip over the Gen-X and compare us to baby boomers, to me, like that workforce has changed, not just in vet med, but changed so drastically to be more female, a higher percentage of female. And so with that, I do think you get this complete change in value. You also lose that stay at home partner. And so your values at the workplace like have to change. So to me it almost does come back to that gender discussion that we're having to to kind of find that that more of that work life balance because there's no choice.

Dr. Katie [00:23:51] Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Alyssa [00:23:52] Yeah. And it's I think it's not just in, you know, veterinary medicine either. It's, it's and talking about, you know, going back to the whole point of this, which was, you know, is there going to be a deficit and do we need more more schools? More schools? Do we need more slots opening up? Should we be graduating more veterinarians? I think that was kind of like the focus of of this at the beginning. And there are more women going just going to school, going to college. You know, they say that more more women are entering vet school. Well, more women are entering medical school, too, and have been, you know, since, about I think over half of the the women entering medical school are women since like 2016 or 2018. So it's not just our profession and the broader discussion about, okay, if more women are entering the workforce or more women are going, you know, going for higher education and degrees, what are what are the men doing? Are men going back into, you know, more trade? I don't know. I think that those are things to be looking at too.

Dr. Katie [00:25:10] Yeah. The question of whether there's a true shortage. It feels like we are overemphasizing that to me. Like there, there might well be a shortage. It's so much data on either side that I, I don't. I mean, we have, what, 10-12 new veterinary schools like opening in the next few years that there are going to be more vets. But if, as I think they cited in here, like in recent years, 40% of veterinarians are considering leaving the profession before retirement, like it doesn't help to graduate them all, especially since a lot of these are are are for profit colleges where people are going to end up with a lot of debt and still want to leave the profession because they're being poured into a profession that isn't going to sustain them, not necessarily because they can't find a job, but because they can't find a job that they want to stay at. And I, I do think, the burnout factor in this report, it feels like they, they talk about it, but it feels minimized to me that like, if we don't fix the system first, then the numbers are not going to matter. And it's just going to actually end up being more people who are disillusioned with the profession they thought they always wanted to be in.

Dr. Beth [00:26:28] Right. I think you. Go ahead, Alyssa.

Dr. Alyssa [00:26:31] Okay. Oh, I was going to say it just goes back to those archetypes that you are talking about. Like, we need to find a way to support people in the profession so that they don't that. Yeah, that they're not coming in and leaving. And not just veterinarians, technicians, support staff. The turnover we've talked about there, too. And so, yeah, they everything it's it's so complicated and it's such a web that it's, it's difficult to pick out things. And I think, you know, like you have been saying the whole episode, Beth, this is just it's just a difficult thing to try to pick out and, and to zero in on, oh, this is the root cause here and I think. You're gonna end up really upsetting somebody when when we try to pick out 1 or 2 things that that are the cause. But at the same time, you want to find something that's actionable, you know? Otherwise, what's it, what's the point if you don't find something actionable?

Dr. Beth [00:27:32] And I think, yeah, you know, we didn't have much time to touch on this during this discussion, but I think at least one of the the refreshing points of the report was that it certainly acknowledged burnout. I think, Katie, like you said, though, like that should potentially be one of the more actionable areas. I would think, you know, we're not going to like change that. This is a women led profession or women majority profession. But, you know, is that burnout something that should be more aggressively tackled? I think that is my understanding, is that's where a fair amount of the discrepancy in that shortage versus surplus comes from is like, are we going to lose that 40% to burnout? And so, you know, I think that's one of the interesting takeaways of this report was how impactful that is. Not that that's a surprise to any of us that are in the profession, but it's always kind of somewhat validating to see it on paper and to see those numbers brought to light. You know, I think to end this on a somewhat positive note, that when the AVMA wrote their, I guess you would call it a rebuttal or their response to the AAVMC report, the CEO and president kind of suggested in that letter that maybe this is a time where they do another joint collaborative investigation on the workforce. So they have done those in the past, and it's been about 10 or 15 years since their last one, but potentially there's more to come there. So, I do encourage everyone to, to, you know, read these reports, read these letters, read the WVLDI comments because it is all very interesting and it does impact all of us in the industry over the next decade or two. So. But I think that brings us to our wins of the week. If anyone has won, we can end this on a positive.

Dr. Alyssa [00:29:26] Oh oh. I'll start. So my win of the week I'm going nonclinical this week. I went clinical last time. My win of the week as we got our house painted. So I'm so excited. The inside of our house we painted the inside of our house. So I have this blank wall behind me now because we took down all the pictures and everything in our whole house and filled all the holes in the wall and got a brand new coat of paint. And it's very relaxing. It's a beautiful, soothing color. I'm glad I picked it. But this is going to be fun. And hopefully over the next several episodes we'll start to see some things pop up behind me.

Dr. Beth [00:30:04] I love it. And you didn't. You outsourced it, right? This wasn't you having to paint everything.

Dr. Alyssa [00:30:08] Oh, gosh. No no no no, I mean, we hired someone to paint our house.

Dr. Beth [00:30:13] I love it, that's nothing. Yes. Nothing like a fresh start. Katie, what about you? Any big wins this week or small wins, for that matter?

Dr. Katie [00:30:22] Well, I have packed the last week or so with some with fun events. And I do this, every year around this time. It's mid-May right now because May is historically a hard month for me personally for multiple reasons. And, so I actually have been super social, which is sometimes not always that positive for me, but in this case, it is. And, I went to my first, NBA game at Ball Arena this week, and because the nuggets were playing in round two of the playoffs and it was game five and it was very exciting. And like I am fully hooked now. Like that vibe has a good vibe and I want more of that. And basketball for people who did not grow up like, you know, who are kind of like me, go sports like sports hard good sportsing. Yeah. For people like me, basketball is very easy to follow. You know, it's fast. You don't have to, like, sit around wondering when they're going to start playing again. And, and it was just a really exciting game, so I, I, you know, I have like, a sweatshirt now.

Dr. Beth [00:31:27] I was going to say I'll hold you to this. The newest.

Dr. Katie [00:31:31] Oh yeah.

Dr. Beth [00:31:32] The newest Denver Nuggets, is that the right team? Newest Denver Nuggets fan. All right I'm going to check in next season and see how you're holding up.

Dr. Katie [00:31:40] Yeah yeah. Well I mean it doesn't hurt that the nuggets are really good right now because we have we have a really good couple of really good players. So that helps.

Dr. Beth [00:31:47] Makes it more fun. We'll see how you're fairing.

Dr. Katie [00:31:49] It's fun to root for a winner.

Dr. Beth [00:31:51] Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Playoffs is the right time to get into a sport I think.

Dr. Katie [00:31:55] Exactly. Yeah. It was definitely a it was a good good introduction to basketball.

Dr. Beth [00:32:02] I love it. Oh good. I'm glad the month is going okay for you. I am going to take mine back to vet med somewhat related to our conversation today. And this is technically more than a week ago, but, Katie, I know you'll know where I'm going with this. And that is that we had a visit to Ohio State University, the Ohio State University, my vet school alma mater to check out something neat that they have created there. They have what's called a spectrum of care clinic, and it's not connected to their specialty hospital. It's across the parking lot. And we were invited to tour and observe and learn all about the university's approach to spectrum of care, which I know we've brought up on this podcast a little bit from time to time, just talking about really embracing, something that is, is more recently more recent to be embraced and vet med and that is the idea of that financial spectrum of care. So it was a really great trip, fun to be back on an academic campus and yeah, fun to see all those those new little vets being produced that.

Dr. Katie [00:33:07] That was a great trip. Like, you're so right. That was such a big win. I just left feeling really energized and excited. To see what this new vet generation will do because we met a couple of that of graduate, we met one of the graduating students, and she was so impressive. I mean, I wish that I had any of that.

Dr. Beth [00:33:28] To be there in the first year. Yeah, exactly. She seemed very confident, very well prepared. We also got to see a group of students on their very first day of clinics, which is like nothing more, you know, exciting. Just talk about excitement for the future in vet med. So. Anyway, well, this has been a great conversation to our audience. Thank you all for listening in and we will catch you guys next episode.



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Where To Find Us:

The Team:

  • Alyssa Watson, DVM - Host

  • Beth Molleson, DVM - Host

  • Katie Berlin, DVM - Host

  • Alexis Ussery - Producer & Multimedia Specialist

Disclaimer: This podcast recording represents the opinions of Dr. Alyssa Watson, Dr. Beth Molleson, and Dr. Katie Berlin. Content is presented for discussion purposes and should not be taken as medical advice. No guarantee is given regarding the accuracy of any statements or opinions made on the podcast.